Curse

MithranArkanere · Feb 11, 2012, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Having other people or alternate accounts put stupid prices for items is often used as part of a scam, taking advantage of the lack of a trade system people can use to quickly check prices for many items.

I've seen people pretending to sell things like an inscribed diamond aegis for over 200e.
Come on! The thing drops all over the place! I've found so many that I even got several diamonds salvaging them.

Sometimes people join in the scam too taking advantage of those party panel lines.

HigherMinion · Feb 11, 2012, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Having other people or alternate accounts put stupid prices for items is often used as part of a scam, taking advantage of the lack of a trade system people can use to quickly check prices for many items.

I've seen people pretending to sell things like an inscribed diamond aegis for over 200e.
Come on! The thing drops all over the place! I've found so many that I even got several diamonds salvaging them.

Sometimes people join in the scam too taking advantage of those party panel lines.

The trade system is great. If you want something and you are willing to pay x for it, then you haven't been screwed over by anyone but yourself. Get over the fact that it's paying "over the odds", it's not a scam.

Kada · Feb 11, 2012, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

The trade system is great. If you want something and you are willing to pay x for it, then you haven't been screwed over by anyone but yourself. Get over the fact that it's paying "over the odds", it's not a scam.

No, that's where you're wrong. I agree on your first point that if someone wants something badly enough that they will pay a totally unreasonable price for it and be satisfied with having paid that price, then it's not a scam but the second point is dead wrong.

Artificially inflating prices by using a "straight man" to play off your price is not making people pay 'over the odds'. It's attempting to scam people into believing that your price is normal and reasonable. Ultimately when those people find out the disparity in what they paid versus what the item is worth, they are going to be left with a bad taste in their mouth about it and that is what separates people that get taken by these scammers and the ones that know they overpaid but they wanted the item so badly they just had to have it regardless of a price.

enter_the_zone · Feb 12, 2012, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Look, this was pretty fricking clearly a scam. But then does that really surprise anyone anymore? Haters gonna hate, scammers gonna scam (often stupidly) and tomorrow the sun will rise. Big surprise, I'm sure.

What I don't get is people defending this dickhead. What in the world compels you to defend some random nameless scammer. So what if he's a scamming dickhead dipshit arselicker? It's not like he's unique, the world is full of people just like him, and, yes, it would be a better place if they all dropped dead, but why sweat it?

To play devils advocate to myself though, it's not like this was an evil genius mastermind. Anyone who has 100 ectos and somehow gets suckered into paying 100 ectos for 2 charr bags needs to get off the internet for their own protection because that's not likely to be the worst they get burned for very long...

Caveat emptor.

HigherMinion · Feb 12, 2012, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Look, this was pretty fricking clearly a scam. But then does that really surprise anyone anymore? Haters gonna hate, scammers gonna scam (often stupidly) and tomorrow the sun will rise. Big surprise, I'm sure.

What I don't get is people defending this dickhead. What in the world compels you to defend some random nameless scammer. So what if he's a scamming dickhead dipshit arselicker? It's not like he's unique, the world is full of people just like him, and, yes, it would be a better place if they all dropped dead, but why sweat it?

To play devils advocate to myself though, it's not like this was an evil genius mastermind. Anyone who has 100 ectos and somehow gets suckered into paying 100 ectos for 2 charr bags needs to get off the internet for their own protection because that's not likely to be the worst they get burned for very long...

Caveat emptor.

Wow... Just wow. Analyse your second paragraph for a moment; he is a nameless "scammer" (or so he has been labelled) then you say it was stupidity, as in, not knowing the price himself. I defended, not this guy, but the whole aspect of what people call a scam. It's ludicrous really and your whole post is flaming mad. When trading, you use common sense. It's not like there are any massive gold sinks in the game anyway, so spending a few extra k doesn't matter much. In fact, I was the one already playing devil's advocate before you raged at me so your post makes 0 sense!

Fay Vert · Feb 12, 2012, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

The trade system is great.

Talk about the stupidest thing you have heard!!!!!!! When someone describes one of the eweakest aspects of this game as great, now that is really stupid. Trading in this game is best described as "possible".

Iuris · Feb 12, 2012, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Wow... Just wow. Analyse your second paragraph for a moment; he is a nameless "scammer" (or so he has been labelled) then you say it was stupidity, as in, not knowing the price himself. I defended, not this guy, but the whole aspect of what people call a scam. It's ludicrous really and your whole post is flaming mad. When trading, you use common sense. It's not like there are any massive gold sinks in the game anyway, so spending a few extra k doesn't matter much. In fact, I was the one already playing devil's advocate before you raged at me so your post makes 0 sense!

Come on, selling a charr bag (offers of 1k-5k on gwestimator) for 75k with cronies "offering" 100k for them is a clear scam. What would you call those 100k offers who then never reply? How would you cathegorize the conspiracy between them? There's a reason a charr bag was chosen - it's an item that Factions and Nightfall characters, along with most Prophecies players don't ever see and are unfamiliar with.

Amazingly, if they did that in real life, you'd see that there are regulations against it. Because real life has to take these things seriously, and has developed the tools to deal with them.

All of this is of course completely unrelated to the tone of any posts here. That's a separate issue.

Omar Charrbane · Feb 12, 2012, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Look, this was pretty fricking clearly a scam. But then does that really surprise anyone anymore? Haters gonna hate, scammers gonna scam (often stupidly) and tomorrow the sun will rise. Big surprise, I'm sure.

What I don't get is people defending this dickhead. What in the world compels you to defend some random nameless scammer. So what if he's a scamming dickhead dipshit arselicker? It's not like he's unique, the world is full of people just like him, and, yes, it would be a better place if they all dropped dead, but why sweat it?

To play devils advocate to myself though, it's not like this was an evil genius mastermind. Anyone who has 100 ectos and somehow gets suckered into paying 100 ectos for 2 charr bags needs to get off the internet for their own protection because that's not likely to be the worst they get burned for very long...

Caveat emptor.

lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Talk about the stupidest thing you have heard!!!!!!! When someone describes one of the eweakest aspects of this game as great, now that is really stupid. Trading in this game is best described as "possible".

lol

HigherMinion <-Common sense nice kinda guy

Yep.

----------

If someone walks up to you in the street and offers to sell you Enchanted Rocks of Power for $50 ( and you look at them and you're pretty sure they're just rocks) and you buy them, you didn't get scammed! You are a Red Gored Engine Idiot!

----------

Okay I can't let it go; please explain what makes you think the trade system is garbage? Because the way I see it, person 1 asks for a price, and person 2 can TOTALLY CANCEL TRADE AT ANY TIME.

Red Gored Engines all over the tracks mothers! CHOO-CHOOO!
Oh shit son! Can you see all the James's on the tracks???!! Woooooo-wooooooo!
All aboard!

enter_the_zone · Feb 12, 2012, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Wow... Just wow. Analyse your second paragraph for a moment; he is a nameless "scammer" (or so he has been labelled) then you say it was stupidity, as in, not knowing the price himself.

Uh, no, stupid as in a really dumb scam... I mean, really, anyone who falls for it kinda deserves to be taken, which is why I was playing devils advocate to myself. Just because it's a retarded scam, doesn't mean it's not a scam. People buy drugs from Mexican "pharmacies" everyday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

I defended, not this guy, but the whole aspect of what people call a scam. It's ludicrous really and your whole post is flaming mad. When trading, you use common sense. It's not like there are any massive gold sinks in the game anyway, so spending a few extra k doesn't matter much. In fact, I was the one already playing devil's advocate before you raged at me so your post makes 0 sense!

100 ecto for 2 charr bags.... That's not power trading, that's straight up hoping to hook a dumb fish.

HigherMinion · Feb 13, 2012, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Uh, no, stupid as in a really dumb scam... I mean, really, anyone who falls for it kinda deserves to be taken, which is why I was playing devils advocate to myself. Just because it's a retarded scam, doesn't mean it's not a scam. People buy drugs from Mexican "pharmacies" everyday.

100 ecto for 2 charr bags.... That's not power trading, that's straight up hoping to hook a dumb fish.

A scam is buying/selling something for nothing, or visa versa. If you want something and you have the money to pay for it, why not get it? I feel like I'm talking to a child. Okay... [patronising voice] If I see you are looking to buy a q8 tactics celestial shield with x mods and I have it and can prove it's everything you ever wanted, then I asked for a really high price, that is not a scam. [/patronising voice] Do you see? I think I can tell why you're confused; people in real life (apparently) exclaim that certain items are a "rip-off", "con" or, wait for it, "SCAM". This is where you got your idea of scam from. It's wrong.

Omar Charrbane · Feb 13, 2012, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Loljup.

A scam is when you are unwittingly coerced into losing something over nothing. You getting a shitty bargain is just poor shopping.

"What the Fudge Best Buy?!!! You sold me an iPod Touch for 259 dollars when REALLY it's worth $98 because all it is is crappy Foxxconn parts and plastic. YOU SCAMMED ME!"

Swingline · Feb 13, 2012, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Read this.

Confidence Trick

If it falls under anything mentioned on that wiki page its considered a scam. Please get your facts strait.

Chthon · Feb 13, 2012, 02:59 AM // 02:59

We've had this discussion before. Regardless of whether or not this fits under the definition of "scam," it is absolutely and for sure NOT FUNNY, so it doesn't belong in this thread.

Horus Moonlight · Feb 13, 2012, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

stuff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omar Charrbane

stuff

Just because you two choose to accept only 1 subcategory of scams and disregard all others doesn't make your point right. Oh wait. It actually makes it totally wrong. Fancy that.

This isn't even getting into Omar Charrbane's inability to differentiate manufacturer's cost and MSRP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Read this.

Confidence Trick

If it falls under anything mentioned on that wiki page its considered a scam. Please get your facts strait.

Thank god/Xenu/Nyarlathotep there is someone who actually gets it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

We've had this discussion before. Regardless of whether or not this fits under the definition of "scam," it is absolutely and for sure NOT FUNNY, so it doesn't belong in this thread.

Aside from the fact that comical value is totally subjective? If we followed your rationale this whole thread would have to be deleted.

enter_the_zone · Feb 13, 2012, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

A scam is buying/selling something for nothing, or visa versa. If you want something and you have the money to pay for it, why not get it? I feel like I'm talking to a child. Okay... [patronising voice] If I see you are looking to buy a q8 tactics celestial shield with x mods and I have it and can prove it's everything you ever wanted, then I asked for a really high price, that is not a scam. [/patronising voice] Do you see? I think I can tell why you're confused; people in real life (apparently) exclaim that certain items are a "rip-off", "con" or, wait for it, "SCAM". This is where you got your idea of scam from. It's wrong.

[Patronizing voice] Deluded much?[/patronizing voice]

The dictionary definition of scam is

noun

1) a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, especially for making a quick profit; swindle.

Oh, and I feel like I'm talking to an idiot. Primarily because it is evident that I am...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omar Charrbane

Loljup.

A scam is when you are unwittingly coerced into losing something over nothing. You getting a shitty bargain is just poor shopping.

"What the Fudge Best Buy?!!! You sold me an iPod Touch for 259 dollars when REALLY it's worth $98 because all it is is crappy Foxxconn parts and plastic. YOU SCAMMED ME!"

Yeah, they did. Not every scam or con is illegal. In fact, it's amazing how much legality a huge corporation can buy...

And to be clear here, the scam Apple are pulling has nothing to do with the price, it's the marketing BS that has somehow substituted the word Apple for "cool" and that they're pretty clearly trying to (and have largely succeeded at) get people to believe that owning an Apple product will make them "cool". The reality is that Apple does not make uncool people cool. Except, maybe, Steve Jobs.... because what isn't cool about making billions based on some BS marketing and a nice UI.

Omar Charrbane · Feb 13, 2012, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus Moonlight

Just because you two choose to accept only 1 subcategory of scams and disregard all others doesn't make your point right. Oh wait. It actually makes it totally wrong. Fancy that.

This isn't even getting into Omar Charrbane's inability to differentiate manufacturer's cost and MSRP.

That was just an example I completely made up to prove a point. I don't know what the manufacturing costs are for iShit, so fancy that, you totally showed me anyway.

Let me ask you something, when you buy, say, bread from the black market, do you go by the suggested retail price or the manufacturer's cost?

Let me give you a hint; It's Red-Engine Thomas Gored NEITHER.
It's whatever the salesman asks you for it, and you can -GET THIS- accept it, or walk away.

Accept.
Walk away.

Acept.
Walk Away.

I find the reason this topic partcularly irritates me is because as someone who almost exclusively never uses the Trade feature, I don't know what market values are. When I first started playing the game a few years ago, I was in Pre=Searing and got a Salvage kit, and was all "swjksahgdsgh!!! IT"S GOLD!" and someone asked in allchat if anyone had one and trade was proposed, then I sold it to him for like 20K. He asked me how much I wanted, I was all "I dunno..." and he's all "is this ok (20k)" and I was all "Yessss!

Turns out that shit was only likr 5.5k, whatever, easy come easy go, when I merched black dye because I thought it dropped regularly like other dyes.

I was ignorant, and the person who lost 20k was also ignorant. That doesn't make me a scammer.

And if you go all "WELL NYAHH U SHUD GURU & WIKI & CSI & ARGOS & READ TRADE CHANNEL AS A PART TIME JOB". My answer is "Go to Hell" I'm here to play a videogame notwaste my time learning and actively studying(and keeping up to date with) a fictional fantasy world economy.

You guys might. I won't.

TL

R I can totally relare to the Charrbag Scammer. ...Assuming he wasn't actually a scammer.

----------

On a total sidenote, I have been recently in Ventari's alot looking at weapon/shield price ranges and the guys there are really helpful.

But I didn't even know about it until recently, and some people, like new players, will just honestly set prices at what they believe the item to be worth.

I too used to think that all Greens were RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing fantasic priceless treasures; Now I can't wait to merch that shit.

HigherMinion · Feb 13, 2012, 07:14 AM // 07:14

I don't care about the morality of it, but your aggression towards the "idiot scammer" is hilarious to me. Two oblivious parties trading with numbered plucked out of their arse isn't going to hurt. There's a choice and that makes it fine. Ha, calling me delusional when you are going by what a book tells you...

Kada · Feb 13, 2012, 08:27 AM // 08:27

The issue is the straight man.

If it's just you rocking up to Spamadan and saying "hey, who wants to pay me 75k for a charr bag?" and someone that knows well enough to know what a charr bag is worth says "oh why the hell not" and buys it on impulse, then it's not scamming.

When you bring in someone else though that helps you and spams prices in tandem with yours for the express appearance of making your trade price seem fair and reasonable when it in fact is not, and someone buys the item based on this appearance of a bargain, that is when it becomes a scam.

enter_the_zone · Feb 13, 2012, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

I don't care about the morality of it, but your aggression towards the "idiot scammer" is hilarious to me. Two oblivious parties trading with numbered plucked out of their arse isn't going to hurt. There's a choice and that makes it fine. Ha, calling me delusional when you are going by what a book tells you...

I'm aggressive to everyone and everything in general, a proper grumpy "old" man. Scammers piss me off because they're one step away from those doorstep bastards who prey on old people and I really hate those guys.

And you're right, if they were both oblivious, and more particularly if the seller was oblivious then there's no foul, a scam requires intent. But do you really think he was oblivious? Experience dealing with people tells me otherwise, as does his later badgering of the guy who called him on his bullshit.

And it was actually dictionary.com, though I don't need a dictionary definition because I have enough common sense to know a scam when I see it.

Outerworld · Feb 14, 2012, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

And it was actually dictionary.com, though I don't need a dictionary definition because I have enough common sense to know a scam when I see it.

But you just spent the last page arguing how that screen was a scam...